“It has to do with a particular flavor of injustice: telling the truth and not being believed, watching confidence override accuracy, sensing how power—explicit or implied—can set the terms of reality.” - THIS PART
I’ve had many times in my life where I froze, unable to be solid in my conviction that what I’d said was the truth. Most often those times were when I was faced with an insurmountable arrogance in the other person, who was only louder in order to convince their position. Ugh…it is what we see played out in our culture today. And then…unsure…we turn on ourselves in anger for not being able to stand up for ourselves. My solution unfortunately was often to just say “you’re an idiot” and walk away. Really mature 🙄
So what have I arrived at today after all my work? I’m able…as you were…to understand that my anger was not about what was happening in that moment but rather something else. That in itself is liberating. Alas the moments of potential reaction still arise if we spend any time with others. 🤷🏻♂️
Funny thing is, if I had offered that response in this particular group (“you’re an idiot” and walk away), it would have been so deeply unexpected that it might’ve shocked everyone into seeing what was unfolding. 😂 But of course I would’ve suffered greatly later, when reviewing it all and noticing how it felt in my body.
But you’re so right, Dee. There is such a sense of release for me when I keep looking, keep looking, keep looking... and begin to see the deeper feelings and reasons. Thanks so much for sharing.
I am not fast with the good responses or comebacks. It is rare for me to be able to pull off what I really want to say if my emotions are high. I would respond the way you did Dana, I would attempt to say my piece and write the rest.
I think you handled this frustrating situation with grace. While you are right that we are rarely upset about what we think we are upset about, I am guessing the trust you have in this group and facillitator has weakened which is very unfortunate.
I am, as always, being blessed and nourished by the splendour of the Kootenays. I am hungry for a bigger life and am tuning in to figure out what that looks like.
Thank you, Donna. And yes, honestly where I’m at with the group situation right now involves a lot of disappointment and grief.
I miss the Kootenays so much! I love hearing how they’re nourishing you and love that hunger and question: what does a bigger life look like? Thank you so much for sharing.
Oh, Dana... I felt like you were writing about one of MY experiences as I read through this. My heart goes out to you... and, as usual, I'm so touched by your thoughtful and sincere inquiry into your own relationship with this.
I've been really struggling lately with what I've discovered is trauma from my abusive childhood which is summed up in this question, "Why won't anyone listen to me?" This comes up on a daily basis for me - even at 53 years old. And just this past week I discovered it's trauma origins. A very young part of me. I speak very intentionally, and I mean exactly what I say, and it's like most of the time I feel like I'm speaking in a language that hasn't been created yet. It's been a real disabling experience for me. And, I'm working with it. Compassionately.
Reading how you're working with it was inspiring for me. I appreciate you. 💜
Thank you so much, Steve. For being here, for hearing me, for seeing me.
My heart is sending your heart so much love, care, and compassion. And because I know you, I know this to be so very true: You do speak intentionally, with exceptional care, and you mean exactly what you say.
More than that, your meaning lands so clearly for me. Possibly not one hundred percent of the time - simply because we are two different people, inhabiting two different experiences. But the vast majority of the time, the heart of what you’re saying and meaning is beautifully clear. And I certainly don’t feel that way about everyone.
I wish everyone who interacted with you had this same experience - mostly for your heart, but also because you offer such a precious, rare gift through your way of being in the world. So much love to you, my friend. ❤
“Yin” and “Yang” sound so similar, I can see how somebody might get it wrong. However, it sounds like this speaker needed way more humility!
I applaud your courage in speaking out initially, even if standing your ground further in the moment didn’t happen.
Of course Yang is active and Yin is passive or receptive. Anybody with even a passing familiarity with classical Chinese thought knows this.
It is dangerous to allow the student to persist in her error because it will only confuse people.
It is maddening that someone could have so little humility in the face of a thousands-year-old system.
we seem to be entering a phase of the discourse where right and wrong are determined by power and popularity, not by any reference to history. It won’t go well.
Thank you, Claudine. I didn’t feel particularly courageous in the moment, but I knew that if I didn’t say anything at all, I would’ve felt as though I’d completely abandoned myself and the truth afterwards. No matter how faltering my voice in such moments, and no matter how imperfect the delivery, I’ve learned that there are certain moments when it’s still important to say something - even something that feels very quiet and small.
You get at another piece that bothers me so much, and which I didn’t really touch on here. It’s wild to me that someone, particularly someone who knows very little or nothing about a system that’s been around for thousands of years, can assert their belief about that system so strongly. All the more so if they were born and are living in the West and are speaking about an entirely different culture and way of thinking and perceiving. All the more so if they don’t even know the source language.
It’s absolutely understandable and no big deal to mix up Yin-Yang. But, as you say, it’s the absence of humility that astounds me.
Oh you and I are on the same wavelength this week. Our posts seem to be holding hands 🫶
I feel so much of what you articulate here deeply.
“The gap between what I wanted to say in the moment and what I could access while frozen felt like a chasm.” This happens to me often. I get a clear hit of something that feels so urgent to express but then my thoughts suddenly swirl making it hard to succinctly speak them. The way you write about what could be underneath them, preventing you from accessing them all the way through in the moment is really helpful to me. Thank you.
The more I unpack my patterns, the ones that cause me pain, anger or confusion, the common denominator is grief. And I find that all the flavors of grief accumulate in me. The noticing, though, as you point out here, is the most profound part of it all. That’s where we gain our power. That’s how we climb out of the chasm.
They do seem to be holding hands! I love that, Allison.
And I so hear you on grief being the common denominator. It is for me, too. Lately, I’ve been trying to lessen my fear of grief by reminding myself that when I go straight into the feeling, rather than consciously or subconsciously avoiding it, I end up accessing not just grief but love. Because they really do seem to go together.
Sending heart-sourced wishes for strength and ease as you notice and walk with it all. ❤
Having dealt with the CRA for the last 7 years where legitimate expenses, leasing, renovations, supplies were taken away. I was confident a court hearing to settle the matter would vindicate my rights to a fair assessment. Instead after legal fees, interest charges, and malfeasance of the CRA in manipulating numbers, the department of justice showed itself to be a Kafkaesque dream of a corrupt bureaucracy. and the Canada government is no longer on the side of justice.
Oof, that sounds like a maddening experience, Rod. Sending wishes for spaciousness and some sense of internal release, even if the external circumstances don’t change.
Thank you Dana. I find practicing the Six Healing Sounds done silently in bed at night helps me relax and release for sleep: Doing Neidan work in Qigong. helps. Tian Wang Bu Xin Dang helps, dancing helps. At 77 my retirement looks different now. We have to sell our paid for house to pay off the debt and down size. Going back to work is a bit of a challenge.but I am primarily meeting seniors in their 80's so I feel these are my community. who are about to loose everything. Luckily I have a partner who accompanies me.
I very much relate to freezing during moments of conflict, as well as the grief of not feeling heard in important relationships. As you say, it's usually not so much about what's happening in the present, but rather the layers that sit underneath it of past hurts and early patterning. Thanks for your vulnerable share Dana ❤
Thanks for writing about this experience. I can so relate to the unfolding of that moment as you explained it and its many layers. It is a very strange headspace that takes the breath away so quickly. I will turn to your ideas when I next find myself in that place, and I expect that many, perhaps all of your readers have gained a great deal of perspective from your share.
Wow, Dana, just wow! Thank you for sharing all that. I so resonate with all of it. I also have trouble speaking up and sometimes when I do I dwell on the fact that I did (what did I say? Did I sound self-righteous? Arrogant? Stupid?). I often can’t find the words I want at that moment…I don’t process really quickly on my feet…I have to chew on things for a while and then I scold myself for over-analyzing. I often have to go to my journal because I express myself better in writing than on-the-spot. There have been many times when, in hindsight, I was glad I didn’t just react but kept quiet. I have become more confident (sharing in sober circles has been huge for me) in my ability to practice discernment and at times have felt proud of that (growth!). Thank you for sharing how you moved through all the emotions you experienced to end up with clarity about your feelings and reaction. It is reassuring to know I am not “weird”, “too sensitive” or “ too intense” when I hear other people talk about these very same thought processes.
P.S. thanks for the book recommendation of The Web that has no Weaver. It is connecting a lot of dots for me in my TCM treatment journey.
Oh my goodness, I do that too: dwelling on whatever I managed to get out, knowing that it was so far from what I’d consider careful and calm and complete. As you say, though, there are also blessings in tending to say less or stay quiet. That’s actually a really good reminder for me. Thank you.
Thank you as well for reminding me I’m not alone in getting knotted up over these things! I said to Randy last night, “I worry people will read this and think I’m nuts for getting so worked up about Yin-Yang! But it’s my honest experience...”
I love hearing how sharing in sober circles has been transformative for you, and that makes so much sense to me. I love the shared norms and expectations around non-shaming, using “I” statements instead of collective language based on assumptions, and making space, including for each person to share if they wish, without fear of being cut down.
So glad that book is helpful! It’s such a beautiful entry into the medicine.
Dana, so sad this experience which you look forward to took a turn for the worse, and you felt as though you could have engaged differently.
I recently had a conversation with a dear friend which I could have handled differently, but emotions took over. Hopefully, it did not damage our relationship.
The lesson I learned was that rather than being “right”, I need to allow others to follow their own truths, even if I totally feel they are wrong.
Thank you. It really is such a bummer when it comes to this group, though I’m still finding gifts in the experience and the practice.
I know that sort of conversation well and how painful it can be. When I find myself in something similar, I try to remind myself that we love each other and that we probably hold the same deep values and longings in our hearts, beneath our beliefs and opinions. And yet, in the moment, it’s sure not easy. Wishing you grace and ease with it all.
“It has to do with a particular flavor of injustice: telling the truth and not being believed, watching confidence override accuracy, sensing how power—explicit or implied—can set the terms of reality.” - THIS PART
Truly makes me so crazy.
I’ve had many times in my life where I froze, unable to be solid in my conviction that what I’d said was the truth. Most often those times were when I was faced with an insurmountable arrogance in the other person, who was only louder in order to convince their position. Ugh…it is what we see played out in our culture today. And then…unsure…we turn on ourselves in anger for not being able to stand up for ourselves. My solution unfortunately was often to just say “you’re an idiot” and walk away. Really mature 🙄
So what have I arrived at today after all my work? I’m able…as you were…to understand that my anger was not about what was happening in that moment but rather something else. That in itself is liberating. Alas the moments of potential reaction still arise if we spend any time with others. 🤷🏻♂️
Funny thing is, if I had offered that response in this particular group (“you’re an idiot” and walk away), it would have been so deeply unexpected that it might’ve shocked everyone into seeing what was unfolding. 😂 But of course I would’ve suffered greatly later, when reviewing it all and noticing how it felt in my body.
But you’re so right, Dee. There is such a sense of release for me when I keep looking, keep looking, keep looking... and begin to see the deeper feelings and reasons. Thanks so much for sharing.
Always learning. Always growing 🙏🙏
I am not fast with the good responses or comebacks. It is rare for me to be able to pull off what I really want to say if my emotions are high. I would respond the way you did Dana, I would attempt to say my piece and write the rest.
I think you handled this frustrating situation with grace. While you are right that we are rarely upset about what we think we are upset about, I am guessing the trust you have in this group and facillitator has weakened which is very unfortunate.
I am, as always, being blessed and nourished by the splendour of the Kootenays. I am hungry for a bigger life and am tuning in to figure out what that looks like.
Thank you, Donna. And yes, honestly where I’m at with the group situation right now involves a lot of disappointment and grief.
I miss the Kootenays so much! I love hearing how they’re nourishing you and love that hunger and question: what does a bigger life look like? Thank you so much for sharing.
"Grief that includes not being truly heard or known by those from whom belonging felt most essential."
I struggle with this. And even more so with NAMING this when it comes up. So, thank you.
❤️
This really stayed with me — especially the moment you described freezing while knowing what you wanted to say.
I’ve experienced something similar in my own way. Not so much not knowing the truth, but not being able to access it in the moment when it matters.
The idea that the real frustration isn’t about the situation, but about ourselves in that moment… that feels very real.
Thank you for putting words to something that’s hard to see while it’s happening.
Thanks so much for sharing, and for letting me know how it resonated, Petr. And right? It sure can be hard to see while it’s happening.
Oh, Dana... I felt like you were writing about one of MY experiences as I read through this. My heart goes out to you... and, as usual, I'm so touched by your thoughtful and sincere inquiry into your own relationship with this.
I've been really struggling lately with what I've discovered is trauma from my abusive childhood which is summed up in this question, "Why won't anyone listen to me?" This comes up on a daily basis for me - even at 53 years old. And just this past week I discovered it's trauma origins. A very young part of me. I speak very intentionally, and I mean exactly what I say, and it's like most of the time I feel like I'm speaking in a language that hasn't been created yet. It's been a real disabling experience for me. And, I'm working with it. Compassionately.
Reading how you're working with it was inspiring for me. I appreciate you. 💜
Thank you so much, Steve. For being here, for hearing me, for seeing me.
My heart is sending your heart so much love, care, and compassion. And because I know you, I know this to be so very true: You do speak intentionally, with exceptional care, and you mean exactly what you say.
More than that, your meaning lands so clearly for me. Possibly not one hundred percent of the time - simply because we are two different people, inhabiting two different experiences. But the vast majority of the time, the heart of what you’re saying and meaning is beautifully clear. And I certainly don’t feel that way about everyone.
I wish everyone who interacted with you had this same experience - mostly for your heart, but also because you offer such a precious, rare gift through your way of being in the world. So much love to you, my friend. ❤
“Yin” and “Yang” sound so similar, I can see how somebody might get it wrong. However, it sounds like this speaker needed way more humility!
I applaud your courage in speaking out initially, even if standing your ground further in the moment didn’t happen.
Of course Yang is active and Yin is passive or receptive. Anybody with even a passing familiarity with classical Chinese thought knows this.
It is dangerous to allow the student to persist in her error because it will only confuse people.
It is maddening that someone could have so little humility in the face of a thousands-year-old system.
we seem to be entering a phase of the discourse where right and wrong are determined by power and popularity, not by any reference to history. It won’t go well.
Thank you, Claudine. I didn’t feel particularly courageous in the moment, but I knew that if I didn’t say anything at all, I would’ve felt as though I’d completely abandoned myself and the truth afterwards. No matter how faltering my voice in such moments, and no matter how imperfect the delivery, I’ve learned that there are certain moments when it’s still important to say something - even something that feels very quiet and small.
You get at another piece that bothers me so much, and which I didn’t really touch on here. It’s wild to me that someone, particularly someone who knows very little or nothing about a system that’s been around for thousands of years, can assert their belief about that system so strongly. All the more so if they were born and are living in the West and are speaking about an entirely different culture and way of thinking and perceiving. All the more so if they don’t even know the source language.
It’s absolutely understandable and no big deal to mix up Yin-Yang. But, as you say, it’s the absence of humility that astounds me.
Thank you. In keeping with your post, I’m mad or disappointed in myself for even engaging. Hopefully, it won’t damage our relationship.
It can be so hard to hold back in the moment - wow, do I know. But I think awareness even after the fact can shift things in a helpful way ❤
Oh you and I are on the same wavelength this week. Our posts seem to be holding hands 🫶
I feel so much of what you articulate here deeply.
“The gap between what I wanted to say in the moment and what I could access while frozen felt like a chasm.” This happens to me often. I get a clear hit of something that feels so urgent to express but then my thoughts suddenly swirl making it hard to succinctly speak them. The way you write about what could be underneath them, preventing you from accessing them all the way through in the moment is really helpful to me. Thank you.
The more I unpack my patterns, the ones that cause me pain, anger or confusion, the common denominator is grief. And I find that all the flavors of grief accumulate in me. The noticing, though, as you point out here, is the most profound part of it all. That’s where we gain our power. That’s how we climb out of the chasm.
I loved this essay, Dana. ❤️🙏🏼
They do seem to be holding hands! I love that, Allison.
And I so hear you on grief being the common denominator. It is for me, too. Lately, I’ve been trying to lessen my fear of grief by reminding myself that when I go straight into the feeling, rather than consciously or subconsciously avoiding it, I end up accessing not just grief but love. Because they really do seem to go together.
Sending heart-sourced wishes for strength and ease as you notice and walk with it all. ❤
Yes! It is because of love that we grieve. xoxoxo
Well done on all this inner work. Thank you.
Thank you for being here, Tina ❤
Having dealt with the CRA for the last 7 years where legitimate expenses, leasing, renovations, supplies were taken away. I was confident a court hearing to settle the matter would vindicate my rights to a fair assessment. Instead after legal fees, interest charges, and malfeasance of the CRA in manipulating numbers, the department of justice showed itself to be a Kafkaesque dream of a corrupt bureaucracy. and the Canada government is no longer on the side of justice.
Oof, that sounds like a maddening experience, Rod. Sending wishes for spaciousness and some sense of internal release, even if the external circumstances don’t change.
Thank you Dana. I find practicing the Six Healing Sounds done silently in bed at night helps me relax and release for sleep: Doing Neidan work in Qigong. helps. Tian Wang Bu Xin Dang helps, dancing helps. At 77 my retirement looks different now. We have to sell our paid for house to pay off the debt and down size. Going back to work is a bit of a challenge.but I am primarily meeting seniors in their 80's so I feel these are my community. who are about to loose everything. Luckily I have a partner who accompanies me.
So sorry you had to sell your house, Rod. But love hearing all the ways you’re supporting yourself, and that you have a partner and community ❤
I very much relate to freezing during moments of conflict, as well as the grief of not feeling heard in important relationships. As you say, it's usually not so much about what's happening in the present, but rather the layers that sit underneath it of past hurts and early patterning. Thanks for your vulnerable share Dana ❤
Thank you, Vicki. And so true about the many layers and early patterning. Big hearts to you ❤
Thanks for writing about this experience. I can so relate to the unfolding of that moment as you explained it and its many layers. It is a very strange headspace that takes the breath away so quickly. I will turn to your ideas when I next find myself in that place, and I expect that many, perhaps all of your readers have gained a great deal of perspective from your share.
Thanks so much for being here, Maria. Wishing you steadiness and ease with it all.
Wow, Dana, just wow! Thank you for sharing all that. I so resonate with all of it. I also have trouble speaking up and sometimes when I do I dwell on the fact that I did (what did I say? Did I sound self-righteous? Arrogant? Stupid?). I often can’t find the words I want at that moment…I don’t process really quickly on my feet…I have to chew on things for a while and then I scold myself for over-analyzing. I often have to go to my journal because I express myself better in writing than on-the-spot. There have been many times when, in hindsight, I was glad I didn’t just react but kept quiet. I have become more confident (sharing in sober circles has been huge for me) in my ability to practice discernment and at times have felt proud of that (growth!). Thank you for sharing how you moved through all the emotions you experienced to end up with clarity about your feelings and reaction. It is reassuring to know I am not “weird”, “too sensitive” or “ too intense” when I hear other people talk about these very same thought processes.
P.S. thanks for the book recommendation of The Web that has no Weaver. It is connecting a lot of dots for me in my TCM treatment journey.
Oh my goodness, I do that too: dwelling on whatever I managed to get out, knowing that it was so far from what I’d consider careful and calm and complete. As you say, though, there are also blessings in tending to say less or stay quiet. That’s actually a really good reminder for me. Thank you.
Thank you as well for reminding me I’m not alone in getting knotted up over these things! I said to Randy last night, “I worry people will read this and think I’m nuts for getting so worked up about Yin-Yang! But it’s my honest experience...”
I love hearing how sharing in sober circles has been transformative for you, and that makes so much sense to me. I love the shared norms and expectations around non-shaming, using “I” statements instead of collective language based on assumptions, and making space, including for each person to share if they wish, without fear of being cut down.
So glad that book is helpful! It’s such a beautiful entry into the medicine.
Dana, so sad this experience which you look forward to took a turn for the worse, and you felt as though you could have engaged differently.
I recently had a conversation with a dear friend which I could have handled differently, but emotions took over. Hopefully, it did not damage our relationship.
The lesson I learned was that rather than being “right”, I need to allow others to follow their own truths, even if I totally feel they are wrong.
Thank you. It really is such a bummer when it comes to this group, though I’m still finding gifts in the experience and the practice.
I know that sort of conversation well and how painful it can be. When I find myself in something similar, I try to remind myself that we love each other and that we probably hold the same deep values and longings in our hearts, beneath our beliefs and opinions. And yet, in the moment, it’s sure not easy. Wishing you grace and ease with it all.
Conflict. Geezus, it's in the air. x
Sigh... xo