This is beautifully articulated Dana, and I could not agree more about the benefits of moving towards what's hard rather than pushing away and numbing - with drugs or otherwise.
I always thought I didn't have an issue with food, but lately I notice how this oscillates and that when I'm anxious or unhappy it can manifest in a overly rigid or obsessive approach towards healthy eating. It's such an interesting area as food is one substance that we are always in relationship with in some form or another. It's impossible to avoid, and in many ways is a powerful barometer of how we're doing in our emotional world.
Thanks so much, Vicki. And I love that observation from your own relationship with food. It really is an ever-present barometer and place of exploration. So fascinating how food and eating are rarely (maybe never?) just about food and eating.
My food noise levers have been cranked lately. And I can’t quite pinpoint why it’s proving difficult to turn them down. I’ve been leaning into the work of Ali Shapiro who introduced me to the concept of TAIL when asking the question why am I eating this now? It’s a variation of the HALT concept that I first learned of in sobriety. Instead of HALT (hungry, angry, lonely, tired)- it’s Tired, Anxious, Inadequate, Lonely. The idea is to get curious about why we eat what we eat, when we eat it and how we eat it. What is at the TAIL end of the food noise? For me, most often, it’s feelings of inadequacy that push me to numb out with food.
Thank you for offering this series, Dana. I know for me, it is layered and I appreciate the care you take in teasing this out.
Thank you so much for being here and for sharing, Allison. I love that line of inquiry and hearing where it led you.
And yes, absolutely, on curiosity. I find that the more I can ease up on harshness towards myself (and food noise) and get genuinely curious about what’s going on and interested in it on a granular level, the more space opens up, the more interesting and useful the discoveries, the more graciousness I find...and the more possibility for true, lasting, helpful change.
Oh my gosh, the HALT method makes so much sense to me. Thank you for sharing, I'll have to incorporate it into being mindful of what's driving my desire to eat.
"Food noise," what an interesting way to think of it.
I've been meditating for a long time and in most areas of my life I think i have a fairly high level of awareness -- which doesn't mean that I don't fall into mindless patterns! But at least when I do most of the time I can catch myself before falling too deeply. However -- food is the one area where I feel I still hang out with a good deal of ignorance. I only discovered this because of doing a really helpful cleanse a couple of years ago with Kia Miller, and noting how often my mind wanted to use food to meet certain needs, like comfort and intimacy. This was a revelation to me. When I was able to be in that practice for a whole week, I was amazed at how much better I felt both in my body and my mind.
I feel like I am still at the beginning of this practice of awareness with food. I am really curious to read the next two parts of this series, Dana. Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights. Appreciate you!
I almost commented thanking you for writing this before I even read it. I cannot tell you how deeply this speaks to me. I have multiple journal entires on the Ozempic craze. It’s so triggering for me, and it is right in my face all the time. Everywhere I turn someone I know is on it. What makes it so difficult is that I know it’s not for me. I know from my sobriety work that it is not going to give me peace, security, shield me from criticism or help ME except me body. (Might for others- but this is what’s true for me). As much as I wish it could, I know it won’t. I have been spinning my wheels on this for almost two years it feels like, although I know I’m making progress it’s just a really hard thing to unravel. I’ve been trying in some form to shrink my body for 30 years, and no matter what the goal post always moves, which is how I know the solution has to come from within. I’m really trying to remain kind and curious and open moving forward. As with drinking, I know what gifts await when you accept and let go. I know that it possible with this too even if it sometimes does feel impossible. But this piece gives me encouragement and hope and I’m so looking forward to the rest of the series and the pop up. Maybe that’s a missing piece for me. Never thought about it regarding food/body image/eating disorders. Thank you Dana!! How’s the flooding situation? Hope you all are settled back in.
Thank you for being here, Amy! I’m so glad this sort of exploration speaks to you, and glad to hear I’m not alone in feeling like the Ozempic talk is everywhere these days.
I love how you’re able to bring what you know about yourself from sobriety into these other areas. For me, too, that feels like such a gift of sobriety. After giving up alcohol and going through the process of getting really honest about my own patterns, I find it impossible to not bring that same gaze to every other area. And yes! The knowledge that we’ve already done something hard and changed something big (maybe something that felt impossible to change) offers such a powerful reference point and reminder of our own capacity and that so much is possible. Thank you for enriching this conversation, Amy!
And yes - we’re back home! Update on that coming next Saturday, but the short version is the floods have receded and all is well. ❤️
I’m so thankful you’re writing about this! Also in long term ED recovery and it feels like a bandaid and not true healing ❤️🩹 excited for parts two and three!
This is an ongoing reality for me and I ask myself if I create my reality why do I constantly sabotage myself with binge eating. Then I remember I’m untangling decades of dna food trauma and find a bit of solstice in my experiences. I’ve used food as a friend since I was a child and now as a 46 year old woman who is also exploring sobriety over the last year and one month I’m seeing the connection of my food addiction, shopping binging more clearly. The pattern I’m currently in is I’ll have tools for the most part that keep me in tune with my soul needs but then one day a week I’ll go bananas eating junk food. I’ll also do the same with shopping. Then while in the middle of my frenzy I almost wake up and think well, I’m already knee deep so let’s keep going. Afterwards I feel guilty and blah and wonder why I’m sabotaging my goals , intentions , purpose. With all of this said , I’m in the best place I’ve ever been - my awareness is greater than its ever been, for the most part I feel the best I’ve ever felt and now it’s engaging in new and meaningful soul work to show me a new way of being. Thanks for sharing your work and I’m looking forward to November’s part 2 and 3!
Ryanne, yes!!! I feel so similarly. I am 45, quit alcohol in 2021 and feel like I am in such a great place in so many other areas of my life. I actually have coping skills, I can I identify and feel my feelings, I don’t feel like I have to react to everything and can give myself space to let things sink and and decide how I feel and how I want to react. I can sit with uncomfortable thoughts and feelings and know they will pass. But this!!! Ughhhh it jist feels so big. Anyway, your comment spoke to me and I just wanted you to know I feel you sister!
Sending so much care your way, Ryanne. Also heart-sourced recognition for your awareness and honesty in exploring all this - including how patterns in one area tend to show up in others. I’ll be talking more about that in part 2, but I’ve found that even just acknowledging it already sets helpful changes in motion. Maybe not (probably not) all at once, but slowly, with attention and care, over time. ❤️
This feels very recognizable to me. There always used to be this voice saying "is there anything left in the fridge?". And then having to choose between giving in, which will quiet the voice for a moment but be bad for your health, or ignoring it which will make it more persistent until you do give in in the end. I used to go to meditation weekends and sit on the cushion being mindful for hours, then go to the breakfast and obsess about which buns I was going to eat. And it takes so much energy, constantly fighting with yourself.
For me, a big shift came when I read Gary Taubes' "Good calories, bad calories". It showed me that when I ate the wrong things, my body would feel hungry because the internal signalling was out of whack. So I went keto and learned to feel the difference between carb craving hunger and real hunger. I also found that stress eating is not as attractive without the black hole of carb craving underneath it. But I also feel that this is not the whole solution, just an important part of it. Like an alcoholic has to stop drinking alcohol and then has to work with what life is like when you're sober.
Looking forward to the series, thanks for offering.
Thanks so much for sharing, Esther. Everything you mentioned is very resonant with my own path. Although I haven’t read that book, I’ve read other, similar ones (and I’m a certified Primal Health Coach, although I don’t work as a coach currently). Similar to what you describe, changing what I was eating was a huge part of shifting my internal patterns, cravings, the sort of hunger I was feeling, etc. And yet, as you said, that’s only one piece. Thank you for being here!
I am recovering(?) from an eating disorder… people who don’t know but saw my dramatic weight loss ask me how I stopped the cravings… I didn’t. The “food noise” (great term) is there all the time (along with, or conjoined with, the “exercise noise”), if anything louder. In my case I become obsessed with making, but not always consuming, the noise. It reminds me (forgive my analogy, but it works for my memory) of sexual repression - if we push it all down it comes out elsewhere, sometimes stronger, sometimes with worse consequences. My recovery has recently been about using redirection (into physical strength exercise), but I know it’s just a stepping stone with its own unsteady dangers for myself.
So… yeah, you cut through to me with this, and I look forward with interest to something that goes beneath the “treatment”.
Thanks so much for sharing, Marc. And this rings true for me, too: "if we push it all down it comes out elsewhere, sometimes stronger, sometimes with worse consequences." I’ve also found redirection to be a useful stepping stone and tool. I think we can explore what’s underneath while still doing things that channel our energy, thoughts, and focus in a more supportive (or at least less harmful) way. I find that bringing honesty and awareness to this makes a big difference (and sounds like you’re doing that). Very glad you’re here!
I've never heard the term "food noise" and connect with this article in many ways. Including lately as parts of my life are spinning out of control, I feel a tempting tug to fall back into listening to the noise that gets louder, the less well I am. Appreciate you and your sharing.
Dana, I am deeply grateful you are writing this series at this time when I need it. Don't we just love it when that happens! My sugar addiction has got the best of me and I am currently laying the foundation to release it and go into recovery. I am using the same process I used to quit drinking which begins with total submersion in helpful material like this series, hearing from those who have done it and, as you said, becoming very clear on the outcome and why I am doing it and then getting a plan for the physical reality of how it will look.
I love how you are approaching this from the yin/yang perspective. It is sensible and also touches my heart, gives it a tweak and says "follow me."
Yay! So glad you’re here, Donna. How fantastic that you’re returning to the same process you used to quit drinking - you already have the experience of shifting something really hard to change and know you can do it. Yes! For me, this remains one of the most powerful gifts of sobriety: we can apply what we’ve learned to any other area of our lives. Cheering you on and truly grateful for your presence here. ❤️
Like many others have said, calling it “food noise” is really interesting and immediately caught my attention. I’ve often wondered if my obsession with healthy eating is normal and how/when to ease off of it. For me, food noise feels like cycles of restriction followed by periods of eating things in moderation that I’d normally restrict. It takes up a lot of energy and ultimately isn’t serving the purpose I want it to. I’m excited to learn more from this community and the yin/Yang approach. Thank you!
Thanks so much for being here, Shirley. I hear you on the cycles...and it taking up a lot of energy. You’re definitely not alone in that.
I think what’s “normal” is context dependent and based on time, place, culture, individual variables, so many things. In today’s world, many things that are normalized are deeply unhelpful and even harmful to me personally (even in moderation). That said, I find value in studying what’s “natural” so far as our biology and physiology - e.g., as humans, certain foods and ways of eating impact our biology and physiology in predictable ways.
Also, something I’ve found helpful on my own path with it all is to investigate what feels helpful and not helpful, good and not so good in my body and mind - finding an internal reference point that I can use as a guide and compass. More on that in part 2 - thank you again for being here!
Thanks, Dana! Though I have heard his name, I was not very familiar with Gil Fronsdal. After reading your footnote, I listened to a whole Dharma talk by him and really enjoyed it! Do you have a favorite book by him? 🙏💚
So glad you listened and enjoyed it, Don! Strangely enough, I’ve never read a book by Gil...just listened to hundreds of his talks over the years. But he just came out with a guidebook to mindfulness meditation retreats. I believe he has others that are more scholarly, with translations of ancient texts and commentary. https://www.insightretreatcenter.org/updates/#25461
What a valuable read 🙏🏽 The Ayurvedic approach has so many parallels. In the past my food noise was around chocolate, cookies, coffee and crisps, may sound so innocent to some, because we of the ‘normalising’ and bonding western culture has given these, but they got me caught in that dopamine cycle and kept my nervous system dysregulated. Love the yin yang approach to internal and external.
Thank you, Lucy! I thought of you while writing this and how there were parallels with Ayurveda. And yes - so interesting to untangle what our relationship with something is when that thing (or behaviour) is normalized in the culture and messaging that surrounds us. I love how you were able to sort through that to figure out what was supportive and unsupportive for you. Appreciate your presence here!
Such powerful analysis Dana. To examine one’s patterns and make internal changes is to be free. Food or any other coping mechanisms we use fall aside as unintentional once we do so. 🙏
This is beautifully articulated Dana, and I could not agree more about the benefits of moving towards what's hard rather than pushing away and numbing - with drugs or otherwise.
I always thought I didn't have an issue with food, but lately I notice how this oscillates and that when I'm anxious or unhappy it can manifest in a overly rigid or obsessive approach towards healthy eating. It's such an interesting area as food is one substance that we are always in relationship with in some form or another. It's impossible to avoid, and in many ways is a powerful barometer of how we're doing in our emotional world.
Looking forward to reading more.
Thanks so much, Vicki. And I love that observation from your own relationship with food. It really is an ever-present barometer and place of exploration. So fascinating how food and eating are rarely (maybe never?) just about food and eating.
My food noise levers have been cranked lately. And I can’t quite pinpoint why it’s proving difficult to turn them down. I’ve been leaning into the work of Ali Shapiro who introduced me to the concept of TAIL when asking the question why am I eating this now? It’s a variation of the HALT concept that I first learned of in sobriety. Instead of HALT (hungry, angry, lonely, tired)- it’s Tired, Anxious, Inadequate, Lonely. The idea is to get curious about why we eat what we eat, when we eat it and how we eat it. What is at the TAIL end of the food noise? For me, most often, it’s feelings of inadequacy that push me to numb out with food.
Thank you for offering this series, Dana. I know for me, it is layered and I appreciate the care you take in teasing this out.
Thank you so much for being here and for sharing, Allison. I love that line of inquiry and hearing where it led you.
And yes, absolutely, on curiosity. I find that the more I can ease up on harshness towards myself (and food noise) and get genuinely curious about what’s going on and interested in it on a granular level, the more space opens up, the more interesting and useful the discoveries, the more graciousness I find...and the more possibility for true, lasting, helpful change.
Oh my gosh, the HALT method makes so much sense to me. Thank you for sharing, I'll have to incorporate it into being mindful of what's driving my desire to eat.
"Food noise," what an interesting way to think of it.
I've been meditating for a long time and in most areas of my life I think i have a fairly high level of awareness -- which doesn't mean that I don't fall into mindless patterns! But at least when I do most of the time I can catch myself before falling too deeply. However -- food is the one area where I feel I still hang out with a good deal of ignorance. I only discovered this because of doing a really helpful cleanse a couple of years ago with Kia Miller, and noting how often my mind wanted to use food to meet certain needs, like comfort and intimacy. This was a revelation to me. When I was able to be in that practice for a whole week, I was amazed at how much better I felt both in my body and my mind.
I feel like I am still at the beginning of this practice of awareness with food. I am really curious to read the next two parts of this series, Dana. Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights. Appreciate you!
Thank you so much for being here and for sharing that, Maia. What a powerful, beautiful revelation and place of practice!
I almost commented thanking you for writing this before I even read it. I cannot tell you how deeply this speaks to me. I have multiple journal entires on the Ozempic craze. It’s so triggering for me, and it is right in my face all the time. Everywhere I turn someone I know is on it. What makes it so difficult is that I know it’s not for me. I know from my sobriety work that it is not going to give me peace, security, shield me from criticism or help ME except me body. (Might for others- but this is what’s true for me). As much as I wish it could, I know it won’t. I have been spinning my wheels on this for almost two years it feels like, although I know I’m making progress it’s just a really hard thing to unravel. I’ve been trying in some form to shrink my body for 30 years, and no matter what the goal post always moves, which is how I know the solution has to come from within. I’m really trying to remain kind and curious and open moving forward. As with drinking, I know what gifts await when you accept and let go. I know that it possible with this too even if it sometimes does feel impossible. But this piece gives me encouragement and hope and I’m so looking forward to the rest of the series and the pop up. Maybe that’s a missing piece for me. Never thought about it regarding food/body image/eating disorders. Thank you Dana!! How’s the flooding situation? Hope you all are settled back in.
Thank you for being here, Amy! I’m so glad this sort of exploration speaks to you, and glad to hear I’m not alone in feeling like the Ozempic talk is everywhere these days.
I love how you’re able to bring what you know about yourself from sobriety into these other areas. For me, too, that feels like such a gift of sobriety. After giving up alcohol and going through the process of getting really honest about my own patterns, I find it impossible to not bring that same gaze to every other area. And yes! The knowledge that we’ve already done something hard and changed something big (maybe something that felt impossible to change) offers such a powerful reference point and reminder of our own capacity and that so much is possible. Thank you for enriching this conversation, Amy!
And yes - we’re back home! Update on that coming next Saturday, but the short version is the floods have receded and all is well. ❤️
I’m so thankful you’re writing about this! Also in long term ED recovery and it feels like a bandaid and not true healing ❤️🩹 excited for parts two and three!
Thanks so much for being here, Paulina. Sending love from my heart to yours. ❤️
good 🌹🌻🌸💐💚💛💜❤️🌼😍🥰
Thank you, Mr. Ma. Hearts to you!
This is an ongoing reality for me and I ask myself if I create my reality why do I constantly sabotage myself with binge eating. Then I remember I’m untangling decades of dna food trauma and find a bit of solstice in my experiences. I’ve used food as a friend since I was a child and now as a 46 year old woman who is also exploring sobriety over the last year and one month I’m seeing the connection of my food addiction, shopping binging more clearly. The pattern I’m currently in is I’ll have tools for the most part that keep me in tune with my soul needs but then one day a week I’ll go bananas eating junk food. I’ll also do the same with shopping. Then while in the middle of my frenzy I almost wake up and think well, I’m already knee deep so let’s keep going. Afterwards I feel guilty and blah and wonder why I’m sabotaging my goals , intentions , purpose. With all of this said , I’m in the best place I’ve ever been - my awareness is greater than its ever been, for the most part I feel the best I’ve ever felt and now it’s engaging in new and meaningful soul work to show me a new way of being. Thanks for sharing your work and I’m looking forward to November’s part 2 and 3!
Ryanne, yes!!! I feel so similarly. I am 45, quit alcohol in 2021 and feel like I am in such a great place in so many other areas of my life. I actually have coping skills, I can I identify and feel my feelings, I don’t feel like I have to react to everything and can give myself space to let things sink and and decide how I feel and how I want to react. I can sit with uncomfortable thoughts and feelings and know they will pass. But this!!! Ughhhh it jist feels so big. Anyway, your comment spoke to me and I just wanted you to know I feel you sister!
Sending so much care your way, Ryanne. Also heart-sourced recognition for your awareness and honesty in exploring all this - including how patterns in one area tend to show up in others. I’ll be talking more about that in part 2, but I’ve found that even just acknowledging it already sets helpful changes in motion. Maybe not (probably not) all at once, but slowly, with attention and care, over time. ❤️
This feels very recognizable to me. There always used to be this voice saying "is there anything left in the fridge?". And then having to choose between giving in, which will quiet the voice for a moment but be bad for your health, or ignoring it which will make it more persistent until you do give in in the end. I used to go to meditation weekends and sit on the cushion being mindful for hours, then go to the breakfast and obsess about which buns I was going to eat. And it takes so much energy, constantly fighting with yourself.
For me, a big shift came when I read Gary Taubes' "Good calories, bad calories". It showed me that when I ate the wrong things, my body would feel hungry because the internal signalling was out of whack. So I went keto and learned to feel the difference between carb craving hunger and real hunger. I also found that stress eating is not as attractive without the black hole of carb craving underneath it. But I also feel that this is not the whole solution, just an important part of it. Like an alcoholic has to stop drinking alcohol and then has to work with what life is like when you're sober.
Looking forward to the series, thanks for offering.
Thanks so much for sharing, Esther. Everything you mentioned is very resonant with my own path. Although I haven’t read that book, I’ve read other, similar ones (and I’m a certified Primal Health Coach, although I don’t work as a coach currently). Similar to what you describe, changing what I was eating was a huge part of shifting my internal patterns, cravings, the sort of hunger I was feeling, etc. And yet, as you said, that’s only one piece. Thank you for being here!
I am recovering(?) from an eating disorder… people who don’t know but saw my dramatic weight loss ask me how I stopped the cravings… I didn’t. The “food noise” (great term) is there all the time (along with, or conjoined with, the “exercise noise”), if anything louder. In my case I become obsessed with making, but not always consuming, the noise. It reminds me (forgive my analogy, but it works for my memory) of sexual repression - if we push it all down it comes out elsewhere, sometimes stronger, sometimes with worse consequences. My recovery has recently been about using redirection (into physical strength exercise), but I know it’s just a stepping stone with its own unsteady dangers for myself.
So… yeah, you cut through to me with this, and I look forward with interest to something that goes beneath the “treatment”.
Thanks so much for sharing, Marc. And this rings true for me, too: "if we push it all down it comes out elsewhere, sometimes stronger, sometimes with worse consequences." I’ve also found redirection to be a useful stepping stone and tool. I think we can explore what’s underneath while still doing things that channel our energy, thoughts, and focus in a more supportive (or at least less harmful) way. I find that bringing honesty and awareness to this makes a big difference (and sounds like you’re doing that). Very glad you’re here!
I've never heard the term "food noise" and connect with this article in many ways. Including lately as parts of my life are spinning out of control, I feel a tempting tug to fall back into listening to the noise that gets louder, the less well I am. Appreciate you and your sharing.
Thanks so much for being here, Caroline. Sending wishes for stillness and serenity amidst it all. ❤️
I started Bright Line Eating on Sept 30, and have been amazed at how much the food noise has decreased.
Thanks for sharing, Joanna. So wonderful that you found something that’s supporting you!
Dana, I am deeply grateful you are writing this series at this time when I need it. Don't we just love it when that happens! My sugar addiction has got the best of me and I am currently laying the foundation to release it and go into recovery. I am using the same process I used to quit drinking which begins with total submersion in helpful material like this series, hearing from those who have done it and, as you said, becoming very clear on the outcome and why I am doing it and then getting a plan for the physical reality of how it will look.
I love how you are approaching this from the yin/yang perspective. It is sensible and also touches my heart, gives it a tweak and says "follow me."
I'm following❤️
Yay! So glad you’re here, Donna. How fantastic that you’re returning to the same process you used to quit drinking - you already have the experience of shifting something really hard to change and know you can do it. Yes! For me, this remains one of the most powerful gifts of sobriety: we can apply what we’ve learned to any other area of our lives. Cheering you on and truly grateful for your presence here. ❤️
Like many others have said, calling it “food noise” is really interesting and immediately caught my attention. I’ve often wondered if my obsession with healthy eating is normal and how/when to ease off of it. For me, food noise feels like cycles of restriction followed by periods of eating things in moderation that I’d normally restrict. It takes up a lot of energy and ultimately isn’t serving the purpose I want it to. I’m excited to learn more from this community and the yin/Yang approach. Thank you!
Thanks so much for being here, Shirley. I hear you on the cycles...and it taking up a lot of energy. You’re definitely not alone in that.
I think what’s “normal” is context dependent and based on time, place, culture, individual variables, so many things. In today’s world, many things that are normalized are deeply unhelpful and even harmful to me personally (even in moderation). That said, I find value in studying what’s “natural” so far as our biology and physiology - e.g., as humans, certain foods and ways of eating impact our biology and physiology in predictable ways.
Also, something I’ve found helpful on my own path with it all is to investigate what feels helpful and not helpful, good and not so good in my body and mind - finding an internal reference point that I can use as a guide and compass. More on that in part 2 - thank you again for being here!
Thanks, Dana! Though I have heard his name, I was not very familiar with Gil Fronsdal. After reading your footnote, I listened to a whole Dharma talk by him and really enjoyed it! Do you have a favorite book by him? 🙏💚
So glad you listened and enjoyed it, Don! Strangely enough, I’ve never read a book by Gil...just listened to hundreds of his talks over the years. But he just came out with a guidebook to mindfulness meditation retreats. I believe he has others that are more scholarly, with translations of ancient texts and commentary. https://www.insightretreatcenter.org/updates/#25461
Hearts to you, and thank you for being here! 🙏
Thanks, Dana! 😊
What a valuable read 🙏🏽 The Ayurvedic approach has so many parallels. In the past my food noise was around chocolate, cookies, coffee and crisps, may sound so innocent to some, because we of the ‘normalising’ and bonding western culture has given these, but they got me caught in that dopamine cycle and kept my nervous system dysregulated. Love the yin yang approach to internal and external.
Thank you, Lucy! I thought of you while writing this and how there were parallels with Ayurveda. And yes - so interesting to untangle what our relationship with something is when that thing (or behaviour) is normalized in the culture and messaging that surrounds us. I love how you were able to sort through that to figure out what was supportive and unsupportive for you. Appreciate your presence here!
Such powerful analysis Dana. To examine one’s patterns and make internal changes is to be free. Food or any other coping mechanisms we use fall aside as unintentional once we do so. 🙏
Thank you, Dee. And yes! There’s so much freedom available through the process of examination, willingness to change, and practice. 🙏