Ngl, I definitely felt the heat rising at the back of my neck as I made my way through this post because I think it is remarkably audacious and tbh abhorrent to disguise shaming a woman for charging for her work as ‘sharing a perspective’.
This is your work, this is labour. You can charge for that as you see fit.
Not every endeavour can be purely altruistic because we need food, shelter, warmth and tbh whatever else we want to spend our hard earned money on. Not every endeavour SHOULD be purely altruistic. And you actually post a lot for free subscribers and also links to resources (not that you need to but this is the space you wanted to create and have created, which so many people appreciate).
I think people, women in particular, who provide services and content in sober spaces should charge for their work because there’s this expectation that a lot of things should be free and it’s simply not sustainable to put so much out and get nothing back. It’s not a fair exchange. Work is work.
Last point, women already do so much unpaid labour so I like women defying the narrative that that’s how it should be. So much love to you Dana 🫶🏽
That man is jealous of your audience and seeks to cause drama. I recommend blocking him and moving on with your work. I would also submit that your work helps people move beyond sobriety with what I perceive as a seeking life balance.
Also, I am not an addict but I am a paid subscribe because I see value in helping you support other human beings to become more than just recovering addicts.
Dana, I went through a similar struggle when I decided to put some of my writing behind a paywall. I do liberally give free lifetime subscriptions when a reader confesses they can't afford to pay, but what we're doing is work (it's called service journalism) and I believe work should be paid for. Someone on social media made an awful, cutting remark about a story I wrote for The Cut, and because she's also in the media, I was struck by her public vitriol. In the back of my mind I was thinking that there must've been something that set her off, something she was experiencing that ruined her equilibrium. And I read not long after her comment that her husband had been very sick and then recently died. No excuse for bad behavior, but that reminded me that people are sometimes weathering violent storms, which makes them act weird and say hurtful things. Again, no excuse for the a-hole who clocked you in the gut. But maybe his dog just died. I hope you've let the whole thing go. xo
Oh, I love that reminder, Val. It’s so, so true. And while it doesn’t absolve them - and I can’t believe someone would be awful to YOU! - it makes it easier, I think, to not take it personally. All the hearts to you!
As a therapist I had to learn some people will not change and will take their unresolved emotional / addiction out on the nearest person. Thank you for your willingness to serve people. Kindness is still a commodity.
“Some people will not change and will take their unresolved emotional / addiction out on the nearest person” — so true.
I deeply believe that some people just have a pattern of using other people as their garbage can. Doing the work to get rid of the Velcro that allows their side to stick to your side is the real work.
So this essay is important, not as a defense against his garbage — because it’s just projection garbage — but because inside of you, inside of me, are the parts who feel guilty, the parts who don’t feel like we’re OK, and that’s where these people get us.
The work is becoming Teflon to their garbage. But it’s hard work! So I really give you props for doing the work. I do this work all the time. It’s layer after layer of developing my boundaries in a way I wasn’t allowed to develop them as a child.
In what I think is the fourth preface of the Big Book, AA acknowledges that it will not be the only solution, yet so many seem to avoid this point. Sobriety with AA in my experience has spent a long time hiding behind a closed door, keeping itself secretive and thereby supporting the idea that it is shameful to be an alcoholic. This didn't help me find it or even consider that sobriety was a viable option to drinking. I was lucky, in that when I went, I managed to stay. I know many who didn't and many who are no longer with us. This now feels like a revolution that women are in the driving seat of. Writing about it, being public about it, bringing the shame out of the shadows and into the light. Of course it needs to be paid for, how else will it perpetuate and grow, how else will the light be held up for all those who need to find it. AA saved my life, I am eternally grateful for it but I cannot stand by and watch people use it to diminish the work of others that might threaten their own sense of self. I want a sobriety that enables me and lifts me, that doesn't see me hiding in a church hall but allows me to tell others that being sober is THE best thing I have ever done. I have almost fifteen years, it will not be talking about it in public or being paid to help others that threatens it.
It's sad that some men feel entitled to leave these kinds of comments. I think what we do with our Substack accounts -- whether we charge or don't, and why -- is no one else's business.
I’m glad to see this article. Also, I’m honored to be featured in it. Thank you, Dana.
I spent some time reflecting on what gets in the way of my responding in the way Sono does, a way that demonstrates completely open generosity.
I arrived much in the same place as you: I think that someone’s unsolicited advice is about me / has something to do with me / or in some other way the I-me-mine machine is rolling too well.
As another reader mentions in their comment, though, that may not be the case. Perhaps his dog just died. And in my experience, it is often not the case.
There are a lot of things that end up at my feet or in my lap that have nothing to do with me. I can choose to leave them there, put them down, or pick them up and engage with them. All are appropriate responses in a particular context.
Still, I seem to pick a lot of things up. Practice continues. 😅
Thank you so much for your valuable, wise contribution to this essay and to the comments, Taishin Michael. And yes - that really gets at the essence of it. We’re all human here. We’re all holding a lot and, at least on some level, still figuring it out. What am I picking up and taking personally that has little or nothing to do with me? Where and how can I do that a little less often? Here’s to ongoing practice. 😊
I spent a lot of time and energy on comments like this. It’s a waste. You don’t need to explain yourself to him or anyone else. We should value recovery and recovery services more. Nobody buys his books so he gives them away. I guess he thinks this is a flex, but no.
Thank you, Laura. And totally agree. I think I needed to get it out of my system but have zero interest in repeating the same conversation. There are so many other things to focus on!
That is a man who hasn't done the work. People who judge like that are suppressing their own feelings of envy and inferiority. Maybe he will see your response and have some reflection.
I dread this sort of comment and interaction, and commend you for opening up about it as you process the hurtful nature of accusatory and unsolicited judgements. Something I had to learn about myself and my desire to give stuff away for free is that I was often doing so to placate my need to be needed - to be the rescuer. But that only leaves those I rescue in the role of victim, and that does nothing for either of us. I think paid services give people the opportunity to decide (and energetically commit) to become their own rescuers and their own heroes and rescuers. It’s empowering and optimistic, and to deny people that option does not improve the service. That’s my two cents worth, anyway 😁
I think you’re doing amazing work and think those who pay deserve that chance just as you deserve to earn for the energy and effort you put into your work.
That’s such a powerful insight about being or feeling needed, Natalie. It resonates deeply with my own experience. And huge yes on the impact of committing energetically and how money can be useful currency in that exchange. Not saying this is the case for everyone, but when I choose to pay for something I care about, I tend to go all in (including reading and engaging with paid newsletters). Thank you from my heart for your generous words and for being here!
Yeah... it took me days for me to wrap my head around the idea that someone could be addicted to underearning. At first i was like, "what in the late-stage capitalism is this?" and then i was like "damn, they have a 12-step for everything." and then... i caved and started going to meetings. then i heard about Debtor's Anonymous and how underearning goes hand in hand with it. so now i'm in both.
i know you said 12-step wasn't for you, and i get it - there's some things i don't like about it. but if nothing else, i really appreciate the structure, discipline and community it gives me to work through the program. even just hearing everyone's stories was worth it for me. it lets me know i'm not alone. i hope this list of symptoms help others know they're not alone either, whether or not they choose to go through the program themselves.
Love that. And huge yes - I appreciate 12-step programs deeply and do attend meetings on occasion. I found the ACA laundry list particularly eye opening for the exact reason you mention. Now you have me thinking about writing an essay on underearning addiction for the Financial Sobriety series. Thank you!
Firstly, congratulations on becoming a best seller Dana, that is so fabulous 😀🙌 You have an absolute right to value yourself and your work (says me, who hasn't had the courage to turn on paid subscriptions yet 😉). As women, I think this is a big struggle, to value ourselves and our contributions in this way. I've had a few comments from people posting to tell me why what I'm writing about is wrong. So far, I have just responded with a 'thank you for your comment' and scrolled on by. It definitely strikes at the internal self-doubt though. I recently heard Sharon Blackie talking about how as women, we still carry the ancestral fear of being 'burnt at the stake' for speaking our truth. This resonated deeply for me. Appreciate your honest sharing around your process, as ever.
Thank you from my heart, Vicki. And oof. It’s so hard for me to fathom anyone saying that about your thoughtful, insightful writing! What a perfect response you offered, because it doesn’t feed an unhelpful loop. Big gratitude to you for being here and for sharing your own work on Substack and in the world.
Dr Vicki, keep up your helpful posts. We men have much to learn from the wisdom of our sisters. And for those mansplainers who love to go on women's Substacks and criticize... well, it's better if I don't say what I'm thinking.
I wanted to add my thoughts here as well. I'm a social services director, and provide many services to people in my community. My whole life revolves around helping people in difficult situations, to improve their quality of life. But you know what? I'm paid to do this job as well. The idea that something is only a service if you don't get paid is absurd.
Thanks for sharing, Logan - I agree that giving unsolicited advice can be a form of bullying, and I hadn’t thought of it quite like that before. And love that: "no thanks - you keep it."
What’s not lost on me is that he is a man who expects free service. As a woman who has dealt with a lot of these expectations, a lot of these asks, especially recently, I am over it. YOU have a right to ask for what you need. Period. Men think nothing of this or of criticizing women who do.
Sigh... While I truly don’t experience this from men in general, I do agree that there’s a larger dynamic here that has cultural and gendered components.
Ngl, I definitely felt the heat rising at the back of my neck as I made my way through this post because I think it is remarkably audacious and tbh abhorrent to disguise shaming a woman for charging for her work as ‘sharing a perspective’.
This is your work, this is labour. You can charge for that as you see fit.
Not every endeavour can be purely altruistic because we need food, shelter, warmth and tbh whatever else we want to spend our hard earned money on. Not every endeavour SHOULD be purely altruistic. And you actually post a lot for free subscribers and also links to resources (not that you need to but this is the space you wanted to create and have created, which so many people appreciate).
I think people, women in particular, who provide services and content in sober spaces should charge for their work because there’s this expectation that a lot of things should be free and it’s simply not sustainable to put so much out and get nothing back. It’s not a fair exchange. Work is work.
Last point, women already do so much unpaid labour so I like women defying the narrative that that’s how it should be. So much love to you Dana 🫶🏽
Thank you, Tacita! Love those points and sending big love and gratitude to you.
That man is jealous of your audience and seeks to cause drama. I recommend blocking him and moving on with your work. I would also submit that your work helps people move beyond sobriety with what I perceive as a seeking life balance.
Also, I am not an addict but I am a paid subscribe because I see value in helping you support other human beings to become more than just recovering addicts.
Thank you from my heart, JB. I so appreciate your presence and support.
Dana, I went through a similar struggle when I decided to put some of my writing behind a paywall. I do liberally give free lifetime subscriptions when a reader confesses they can't afford to pay, but what we're doing is work (it's called service journalism) and I believe work should be paid for. Someone on social media made an awful, cutting remark about a story I wrote for The Cut, and because she's also in the media, I was struck by her public vitriol. In the back of my mind I was thinking that there must've been something that set her off, something she was experiencing that ruined her equilibrium. And I read not long after her comment that her husband had been very sick and then recently died. No excuse for bad behavior, but that reminded me that people are sometimes weathering violent storms, which makes them act weird and say hurtful things. Again, no excuse for the a-hole who clocked you in the gut. But maybe his dog just died. I hope you've let the whole thing go. xo
Oh, I love that reminder, Val. It’s so, so true. And while it doesn’t absolve them - and I can’t believe someone would be awful to YOU! - it makes it easier, I think, to not take it personally. All the hearts to you!
As a therapist I had to learn some people will not change and will take their unresolved emotional / addiction out on the nearest person. Thank you for your willingness to serve people. Kindness is still a commodity.
“Some people will not change and will take their unresolved emotional / addiction out on the nearest person” — so true.
I deeply believe that some people just have a pattern of using other people as their garbage can. Doing the work to get rid of the Velcro that allows their side to stick to your side is the real work.
So this essay is important, not as a defense against his garbage — because it’s just projection garbage — but because inside of you, inside of me, are the parts who feel guilty, the parts who don’t feel like we’re OK, and that’s where these people get us.
The work is becoming Teflon to their garbage. But it’s hard work! So I really give you props for doing the work. I do this work all the time. It’s layer after layer of developing my boundaries in a way I wasn’t allowed to develop them as a child.
Thank you, Senetta. And yes - so true. Hearts to you!
In what I think is the fourth preface of the Big Book, AA acknowledges that it will not be the only solution, yet so many seem to avoid this point. Sobriety with AA in my experience has spent a long time hiding behind a closed door, keeping itself secretive and thereby supporting the idea that it is shameful to be an alcoholic. This didn't help me find it or even consider that sobriety was a viable option to drinking. I was lucky, in that when I went, I managed to stay. I know many who didn't and many who are no longer with us. This now feels like a revolution that women are in the driving seat of. Writing about it, being public about it, bringing the shame out of the shadows and into the light. Of course it needs to be paid for, how else will it perpetuate and grow, how else will the light be held up for all those who need to find it. AA saved my life, I am eternally grateful for it but I cannot stand by and watch people use it to diminish the work of others that might threaten their own sense of self. I want a sobriety that enables me and lifts me, that doesn't see me hiding in a church hall but allows me to tell others that being sober is THE best thing I have ever done. I have almost fifteen years, it will not be talking about it in public or being paid to help others that threatens it.
Go Dana, this is where the work is ❤️
So many hearts to you, Louise. And so much recognition and celebration of your sobriety. ❤️
It's sad that some men feel entitled to leave these kinds of comments. I think what we do with our Substack accounts -- whether we charge or don't, and why -- is no one else's business.
Take good care, Dana.
Thank you, Diana! Hearts to you!
I’m glad to see this article. Also, I’m honored to be featured in it. Thank you, Dana.
I spent some time reflecting on what gets in the way of my responding in the way Sono does, a way that demonstrates completely open generosity.
I arrived much in the same place as you: I think that someone’s unsolicited advice is about me / has something to do with me / or in some other way the I-me-mine machine is rolling too well.
As another reader mentions in their comment, though, that may not be the case. Perhaps his dog just died. And in my experience, it is often not the case.
There are a lot of things that end up at my feet or in my lap that have nothing to do with me. I can choose to leave them there, put them down, or pick them up and engage with them. All are appropriate responses in a particular context.
Still, I seem to pick a lot of things up. Practice continues. 😅
Thank you so much for your valuable, wise contribution to this essay and to the comments, Taishin Michael. And yes - that really gets at the essence of it. We’re all human here. We’re all holding a lot and, at least on some level, still figuring it out. What am I picking up and taking personally that has little or nothing to do with me? Where and how can I do that a little less often? Here’s to ongoing practice. 😊
I spent a lot of time and energy on comments like this. It’s a waste. You don’t need to explain yourself to him or anyone else. We should value recovery and recovery services more. Nobody buys his books so he gives them away. I guess he thinks this is a flex, but no.
Thank you, Laura. And totally agree. I think I needed to get it out of my system but have zero interest in repeating the same conversation. There are so many other things to focus on!
The alcoholic acts and we react. I no longer find it necessary to convince an alcoholic of anything.
That is a man who hasn't done the work. People who judge like that are suppressing their own feelings of envy and inferiority. Maybe he will see your response and have some reflection.
Sigh... Thank you for being here, Honestly Written. ❤️
I dread this sort of comment and interaction, and commend you for opening up about it as you process the hurtful nature of accusatory and unsolicited judgements. Something I had to learn about myself and my desire to give stuff away for free is that I was often doing so to placate my need to be needed - to be the rescuer. But that only leaves those I rescue in the role of victim, and that does nothing for either of us. I think paid services give people the opportunity to decide (and energetically commit) to become their own rescuers and their own heroes and rescuers. It’s empowering and optimistic, and to deny people that option does not improve the service. That’s my two cents worth, anyway 😁
I think you’re doing amazing work and think those who pay deserve that chance just as you deserve to earn for the energy and effort you put into your work.
That’s such a powerful insight about being or feeling needed, Natalie. It resonates deeply with my own experience. And huge yes on the impact of committing energetically and how money can be useful currency in that exchange. Not saying this is the case for everyone, but when I choose to pay for something I care about, I tend to go all in (including reading and engaging with paid newsletters). Thank you from my heart for your generous words and for being here!
I'd invite the commenter to check out Underearners Anonymous. He may recognize some of the symptoms.
https://www.underearnersanonymous.org/newcomers-to-underearners-anonymous/symptoms-of-underearning/
Oh, wow - I recognize a few of those symptoms in myself! Thank you for sharing!
Yeah... it took me days for me to wrap my head around the idea that someone could be addicted to underearning. At first i was like, "what in the late-stage capitalism is this?" and then i was like "damn, they have a 12-step for everything." and then... i caved and started going to meetings. then i heard about Debtor's Anonymous and how underearning goes hand in hand with it. so now i'm in both.
i know you said 12-step wasn't for you, and i get it - there's some things i don't like about it. but if nothing else, i really appreciate the structure, discipline and community it gives me to work through the program. even just hearing everyone's stories was worth it for me. it lets me know i'm not alone. i hope this list of symptoms help others know they're not alone either, whether or not they choose to go through the program themselves.
Love that. And huge yes - I appreciate 12-step programs deeply and do attend meetings on occasion. I found the ACA laundry list particularly eye opening for the exact reason you mention. Now you have me thinking about writing an essay on underearning addiction for the Financial Sobriety series. Thank you!
So glad I could help. Happy to be a resource, interviewee or guest writer on that!
You might also appreciate this essay. It’s now paywalled - I read it before that was the case, but there’s a free trial option: https://theladybirdpurse.substack.com/p/once-you-get-on-the-underpaid-treadmill
Firstly, congratulations on becoming a best seller Dana, that is so fabulous 😀🙌 You have an absolute right to value yourself and your work (says me, who hasn't had the courage to turn on paid subscriptions yet 😉). As women, I think this is a big struggle, to value ourselves and our contributions in this way. I've had a few comments from people posting to tell me why what I'm writing about is wrong. So far, I have just responded with a 'thank you for your comment' and scrolled on by. It definitely strikes at the internal self-doubt though. I recently heard Sharon Blackie talking about how as women, we still carry the ancestral fear of being 'burnt at the stake' for speaking our truth. This resonated deeply for me. Appreciate your honest sharing around your process, as ever.
Thank you from my heart, Vicki. And oof. It’s so hard for me to fathom anyone saying that about your thoughtful, insightful writing! What a perfect response you offered, because it doesn’t feed an unhelpful loop. Big gratitude to you for being here and for sharing your own work on Substack and in the world.
Dr Vicki, keep up your helpful posts. We men have much to learn from the wisdom of our sisters. And for those mansplainers who love to go on women's Substacks and criticize... well, it's better if I don't say what I'm thinking.
Haha thanks Mark 😊
I wanted to add my thoughts here as well. I'm a social services director, and provide many services to people in my community. My whole life revolves around helping people in difficult situations, to improve their quality of life. But you know what? I'm paid to do this job as well. The idea that something is only a service if you don't get paid is absurd.
Yes! Thank you for sharing that, Justin. I agree.
Unsolicited advice is a form of bullying - it's a weak person attempting to make themselves feel superior by putting another person in their place.
And on the internet they don't even need to have what it takes to say it to your face.
They are trying to shift their self loathing into others, and we can say "no thanks - you keep it."
Thanks for sharing, Logan - I agree that giving unsolicited advice can be a form of bullying, and I hadn’t thought of it quite like that before. And love that: "no thanks - you keep it."
What’s not lost on me is that he is a man who expects free service. As a woman who has dealt with a lot of these expectations, a lot of these asks, especially recently, I am over it. YOU have a right to ask for what you need. Period. Men think nothing of this or of criticizing women who do.
Sigh... While I truly don’t experience this from men in general, I do agree that there’s a larger dynamic here that has cultural and gendered components.